Srila Prabhupada conversation June 6, 1976
Devotee: Because sadhana-bhakti is a gradual process, they immediately want the highest perfection quickly.
Srila Prabhupada: That is the danger. But if they at once go to rasa-lila, because they are not trained up neither they are liberated, they'll
think this rasa-lila is just like our young boys, young girls mix together, have sex like that. So it is supported our.... "Why should
we restrict to no illicit sex, no this, no rules and regulations? We shall do all nonsense." That's all. And become a gopi. It is very good
to aspire to become high court judge, but how you can become high court judge without qualification? That they are not thinking. They
have no qualification, they have illicit sex, pregnant, going to abortion, and they're high court judge.
Devotee: They say Ajamila had no qualification and he just chanted.
Srila Prabhupada: Ajamila had no qualification. Therefore they should have no qualification.
Devotee: They say...
Srila Prabhupada: They say. Now you accept them as authority, "They say." What is they? What they are?
Devotee: Ajamila's qualification was he thought of Krsna at the time of death.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. But you cannot think.
Devotee: They want to think of the gopis at the time of death.
Devotee: Then practice.
Srila Prabhupada: What they will think of at the death, why you are conjecturing now? Their habits are rascal, they're making pregnant,
illicit sex, what they will think? Anyway, if we give indulgence to these people, then this preaching work will be hampered.
Devotee: No, we're not going to do that.
Srila Prabhupada: Or they should be separated. Otherwise, it will be bad example, and all restrictions will be broken.
Devotee: If they don't change their mentality, then they should live separately, do their own society.
Srila Prabhupada: And they'll do that. (japa) That sahajiya tendency is very easy to take up.
Devotee: It seems like it's an inherent thing in...
Srila Prabhupada: Thinking of Radha-Krsna lila, that is in liberated stage, not in the conditioned stage.
Devotee: I could never understand, Srila Prabhupada, why, I was always wondering why in all of your books you're always blasting so
much time on the sahajiyas, and I was not....
Devotee: He's thinking that this is a small group. Devotee: Yes, in India, but now I see it's an easy mentality for anyone's mind that can be adopted. That's why Srila Prabhupada was stressing.
Devotee: And as our movement gets more and more members, there will be more and more people who will be exhibiting this sahajiya tendency.
Devotee: That's why it's in every book Prabhupada speaks about it without fail.
Prabhupada: Anyway, keep your movement very pure. You don't mind if somebody goes away. Don't mind. But we must keep our principles pure.
Devotee: I always remember that you said that in the battle
sometimes some men may be lost.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is natural.
Devotee: Natural. Of course we don't want to lose men, but it's natural.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, when the devotee is in the original relationship with Krsna, his siddha-deha, why is it that he sometimes
changes his original rasa with Krsna?
Srila Prabhupada: Hm?
Devotee: Each one of us has an original relationship with Krsna, some as plant, some as tree, some as cow, some as cowherd boy. So if that is re-established, why should the devotee desire to change it?
Srila Prabhupada: Well, that is spiritual kingdom. You can change if you like.
Devotee: It is not static, Prabhupada once explained. Love is not static.
Srila Prabhupada: Generally, it is not changed. Just like mother Yasoda, she's mother all the time, eternally.
Devotee: The question came in Bombay two or three years ago. Srila Prabhupada said that it is not static. You can have (inaudible).
Devotee: I always understood before that the rasa was fixed, but that within that rasa one may take different..., one may take a
Srila Prabhupada: That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?
Devotee: That's the point.
Srila Prabhupada: A patient is thinking, "How shall I dance when I become healthy?" First of all, rascal, become healthy, then talk of all this.
The rascals are thinking like that. You are patient; first of all cure your disease, material disease. Then talk of all this. Utopian. "When
I will get rich, how I shall treat.... I shall.... Then my wife is disobedient and I shall kick her like this," (laughter) and as soon as
he kicked on the earthen pots, all broken. Then he, "Oh, then my....All prospects have gone." You know this story?
Devotee: What was in the pot?
Srila Prabhupada: That.... A potter, potter boy, he had got some earthen pots selling. So he was dreaming, that "By selling this earthen pot,
I'll make so much profit. Then I shall purchase another batch, I shall make profit. In this way, I shall be millionaire. Then I shall marry,
and my wife must be very obedient. Otherwise I shall kick." So in this way, he kicked over the pots and (laughs) all of them broken.
Devotee: And in the end, nothing.
Srila Prabhupada: That's all.
Devotee: So by his dreaming he, he...
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, first of all be rich man, then do all things, how you shall kick your wife. This is going on. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that
"My Guru Maharaja found Me rascal number one; therefore he ordered, 'You cannot study Vedanta. You chant Hare Krsna.' " They will not read
this portion. That Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He posed Himself as a rascal.
Devotee: But they prefer to read about all the ecstatic symptoms on Caitanya Mahaprabhu's body
Srila Prabhupada: That's all right. That.... Be, first of all bona fide. That is good ambition. But how this good ambition can fulfill when you
are a potter, poor man? Actually be rich, and then kick your wife. And without being rich, if you think all this nonsense, you're spoiling
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, some devotees, sometimes they feel that in ISKCON we're talking so much about the business of how to spread
Krsna consciousness, but we're not talking enough about Krsna's pastimes, krsna-katha, they say. So that's another reason why they
want to read all these pastimes.
Srila Prabhupada: Then let them read. What kind of krsna-katha? The krsna-katha test is as soon as he'll get the taste, he'll lose this
taste. That is the.... What is this nonsense?
Devotee: Won't it purify them? That's what they say, "It will purify
Srila Prabhupada: What you are purified? You have become a, what is called, putrefied, not purified.
Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupada.
Devotee: You can become purified, and sometimes you can increase your...
Srila Prabhupada: No, no. You can read. Be purified. You can read. But where
is your purification?
Srila Prabhupada: The books are there for reading. By reading, you become purified. (break) In 1935, our Guru Maharaja, Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati Thakura, he went to Radha-kunda for karttika-vrata. So at that time he was reading Upanisads. So first of all, these babajis
they were coming. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati had come at Radha-kunda. He's giving some class. So they used to come. But as soon as they saw
that he was reading Upanisads, they stopped coming. They saw: "They are jnanis, they are not bhaktas."
Devotee: What did they want to hear? Dasama-skandha?
Srila Prabhupada: Like that. So Prabhupada condemned them that "They are not
living in Radha-kunda. They're living in Naraka-kunda." I heard it, "They're living in Naraka-kunda."(means hell, not Vaikuntha)
None of us are liberated souls, but simply simple aspiring bhaktas who are trying to become pure liberated souls.
And the proof is stated thrice above by Srila Prabhupada--liberated stage one can know his own eteranl rasa or think of Radha Krsna lila, not before, otherwise you will become a sahajiya, or a cheap bhakta who has taken cheating to be truth.
Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has told us to just chant Hare Krsna mantra--do that perfectly, no matter how many lifetimes it takes, THEN., we will become qualified to listen and enter into Radha Krsna lila, without becomming sahajiya bhaktas. And most importantly the real preaching work has been stopped all due to this sahajiya tendency. Therefore the iskcon temples are devoid of Prabhupada's real disciples.
Na sabham praviset prajnah
Abruvan vibruvann ajno
Narah kilbisam asnute
"A wise person should not enter an assembly if he knows the participants
there are committing acts of impropriety, and if, having entered such an
assembly, he fails to speak the truth, speaks falsely, or pleads
ignorance, he will certainly incur sin." (Srimad-Bhagavatam )
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