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January 26, 1977, Puri
Devotee: When there is a big earthquake, they will come out and say, "This happened..."

Srila Prabhupada: "This happened, this happened, this happened." And therefore in Bengal it is said, pagale ki na bale chagale ki na khaya:
The madman, what he does not say, and a goat, what he does not eat?"
Devotee: Madman?
Srila Prabhupada: What does he not say?
Devotee: He'll say anything
Srila Prabhupada: He says anything nonsense. Everything they willimmediately explain, "It is this." Why this color? "And this electron
and..." What is called? Proton? No? What are the names?
devotee: Electron, proton, neutron?
Srila Prabhupada: No, no. They have got another invention. Die-N-E. What iscalled?
Devotee: DNA

Srila Prabhupada: DNA. In explaining, they are very expert. And if you know what is that, then why don't you replace it? What is that DNA

nonsense? Put it into use. In the classroom they'll make: "This DNA is going this way, that way..." Now, who has made this arrangement,
exactly going in the same way? You cannot manufacture either DNA and the movements also. Actually it is very wonderful things are going.
Devotee: Any explanation except Krsna. They give some alternative explanation than Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada: That is their aim: no God.

Devotee: Now these psychiatrists are doing that with our Hare Krsna. They say, "When these people... They take to Hare Krsna because

of this, because of that, and when they chant this happens in their brain, and this is happening." They don't believe that it is anythin

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. They say that "There is a brain. There is a tissue. There is cerebrum. On account of, they are thinking spiritually.Otherwise if it is cut off, there will be no more opportunity."  They'll do that, brain operation. And whatever nonsense they will do,

we'll accept.
Devotee: They have electric.

Devotee: Electric shock.

Srila Prabhupada: Dangerous community. These scientists, the so-called, they are dangerous community. Now, if five ounce(?) sight(?) is there, "No,

it should be operated. Then he will be cured." And actually it is happening. In the hospitals they make all kinds of experiment, and if you say, "No, why you are doing that? A patient is suffering," "We must execute our science. So long the life is there we shall try to save him." They say like that. They will go on with all nonsense

activity, and if you want to stop them, they will say, "No, our science has got so..." They take in writing that "Whatever we shall do, you cannot object," hospital. It is a place of demons. And as soon as they get a patient who will not protest, they'll make it, they'll make it and operation. No medicine, simply operate.

Devotee: What they do now is... What they've been doing is they have all these pills, and they give them to people to experiment, to see what the reaction is.

Srila Prabhupada: Hm. That is going on. Big, big patent medicine, they will explain scientifically and give to the doctor and make experiment, and

they will go on making experiment. I know this. This is their business. They'll write, they will call for the medical students--they have learned new, new words--and they'll pay to make a literature with bombastic scientific word, and they'll prepare literature. This literature will be distributed and give their medicine, and they may

pay them for false propaganda. This is going on to introduce new patent medicine. I know that. Simply water they will inject to get money. The patients have come, innocent, illiterate--"How want to be...? Do you want to be cured very quickly or little less?" He's a laborer. He says, "Yes, sir, if you cure me." "So then injection will

be required." He has no disease, and they'll give some water injection, yes, and take fee. Because as soon as there is question injection, he'll charge at least four rupees, five rupees. He has no disease. They will inject water and take four, five rupees. In India I have seen.

Devotee: If you need... If you have one infection in America, you know what you need--some penicillin, something to kill the infection. But the doctor will have to make all sorts of experiments to tell you what you already know.

Srila Prabhupada: "You first of all give so much blood. So much give me, and then..."
Devotee: Yes. And charge you fifty dollars.

Srila Prabhupada: Regular business. It is very difficult to consult with a doctor.

Devotee: And I saw the dentist. He tried to ruin one of my tooth so he could do work on that also and make more money. He tried to damage the teeth.

Srila Prabhupada: Money is the only aim. And they will talk all nonsense and make experiment, especially in the Western countries. Here also they

have got now money-making sight. Lawyers also. Any... I have seen in our relatives, big, big rich men. The brothers may sit down and make

some... My father-in-law did that. They sat down, and they were two brothers, and divided his property and got two days. But those who are rascals, they go to lawyer and continually meeting--his man, his man.  In this way the whole property is sold. And they get out with this. That's all. I have seen so many cases. Then the property division means there is nothing to divide. Everything is sold, and the money was taken by the lawyers as their fees. I have seen so many cases.

These real estate men? Real estate? They also. So many times they complicated our men. You know that? 
Devotee: The first time?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. They'll promise... You have got five thousand dollars. They'll promise 100,000 dollars' property you'll get, and how  it will be done, this scheme, that scheme... "We'll do this scheme,  that..." Then they will take five thousand dollars from you, and they will say, "Now it is finished. Now bring more money." Then further made... That lawyer who was trying to give me a permanent visa?

Devotee: Yeah, some Greek name.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Fishlington or something like that.

Devotee: Mitralanti(?) or something.

Srila Prabhupada: Ah. So he was taking every fortnightly 150 dollars by telephone, and Rayarama, he was paying. He took about five hundred,

six hundred dollars and did not do anything, simply extending the date. The lawyers will plunder. The government men will plunder. The

physician will plunder. Ordinary dealing, they will plunder. The shopkeepers will plunder. The... And bank will say that "You take

money. You pay your bills. We'll give you loan, we'll charge interestAnd when you get your salary, then you have to deposit it in the

bank." And they'll adjust. And again you are penniless. Again you take loan. The social arrangement is so made that you simply depend on

loan. And to earn this money you'll have to go five hundred miles away from your home, early in the morning, in the car.

Devotee: And in the train.

Srila Prabhupada: Train also. So how you can be happy? This is their civilization. You study. I have studied in your country, everywhere.

This is civilization.

Devotee: Our printing man from Dai Nippon... The printing man who was doing our book from Dai Nippon, he would come to the house at

eight-thirty at night. And he lives... Every day he travels two hours to Dai Nippon in the morning and at night another two hours.

Srila Prabhupada: Just see. Many. Why Dai Nippon?

Devotee: But this was eight-thirty at night he came.

Srila Prabhupada: No, Bombay, Bombay, Calcutta.

Devotee: I asked him, "What time do you go to work?" He said, "At nine in the morning." I said, "But it is eight-thirty. You have been

working now eleven hours." He said, "Well, after I leave here, I must go back to the office and finish my work. I will be finished at eleven

tonight. Then I will go home. I will get home at one o'clock, and then I must get up at six in the morning to go to the office." So much


Srila Prabhupada: There is a book, novel. The subject matter is that the man, when he goes out of home the child is sleeping. He has to rise

four o'clock to prepare to take the six o'clock train. At that time his child is sleeping. And when he comes back at ten o'clock, the

child is sleeping. So he does not know. So when he's grown up, on Sunday he's asking his mother, "Who is this man?" (laughs) This is the

subject matter. They have written in a very... He is asking, "Who is this man?" When he was child, he did not see, neither inquired. Now,

when he's grown up, on Sunday he sees that this man is very intimately talking with his mother. He... In this way...

Devotee: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For

that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not

think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyasi and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And

after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh?

You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard--how you

can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are

not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving

anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses. So actually the man is serving his own senses, ustra. He's eating his own blood and

thinking, "Thorn very palatable." He's eating thorn. What is his palatable? Cutting the tongue and blood is coming out, and when the

thorn's chewed with this blood, it makes little taste. Blood has got taste. And he's thinking, "Thorn is very nice." Therefore they have

been called as ustra. Ustra eats own, drinks or eats his own blood,  and takes the thorn as very good. Sva-vid-varahostra-khara. These

animals have been specially mentioned: dog; vid-varaha, means hog;  ustra; and khara means ass. How Bhagavata has selected. (laughs) Sva

means dog. Dog, after technical education, if he does not get a post where he can use this computer and other big, big..., he's a dog. He

goes to a bank, "Sir, I am expert in this machine work. Can you give me a job?" "No, no. There is no vacancy." Then again he puts his tail,

goes another, another. What is use, this? The big, big technologists, unless they get a suitable job, they're just like dog. Dog is

loitering in the street, no food. So these men with all this high technological knowledge, if they do not get a proper master, they are

nothing but dog. This is university education. So dog and hog. Hog means he can eat any nonsense thing, whole day working, if he gets

sex. Never mind whether mother, sister or daughter or any. You see the hog's family. They are very much sexually inclined, without any

discrimination, and eating stool. This is his life. You see nowadays this man, he's eating anything, the hog's intestine. What is that?

Devotee: Sausage.

Srila Prabhupada: Very good food. What is that? Hog intestine. Hog is eating stool, and the intestine is filled up with the stool, and they have to

clear it out. When it is boiled there is a so bad smell. And that is  very palatable. And by eating, as soon as he gets little strength,

then sex without any discrimination. So hog. Sva-vid-varaha. And the ustra. Ustra I have already explained, camel. And then ass.

Sva-vid-varaha-ustra-khara. Khara means ass. Now, why ass is mentioned? Means he's work with the washerman, and he loads tons of

cloth to take him to the ghata where he'll wash, and give him a little grass. And he'll stand whole day. And again load and again come. He
has no eyes to see that "Grass is everywhere, every... Why I am engaged in this washerman? Whose cloth? It is neither my cloth nor

his." But he is working: "Oh, washerman is giving me grass."

Devotee: Everybody's ass.

Srila Prabhupada: So therefore these four animals have been mentioned:  sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah. And he is, this class of men,

selecting a leader by vote, democracy. So this class man intelligence,just see. And what class of man he will select? And how we desire to

be happy by such elected men who is elected by these dog, hog, camel and asses? Are there any intelligent? And you expect good government,

peaceful state and... And the sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. Therefore the others, they went to see the lion. So

dog, hog, camel, ass will... "Oh, he's a lion." But what is a lion? Itis also an animal, big animal. That's all. Similarly, the so-called

president and leader and Gandhi, they are also another animal, big animal. So does it mean an animal big and very powerful, he has got

the human intelligence? This is civilization. And when you say the right thing, that human life is meant for understanding God and

prepare for the next life--"brainwash." This is life. So remain like hog, dog, camel, and asses and go on, be engaged in politics and
election--"Then you are right." And if you speak against this mode of civilization--"brainwash."

Devotee: They're especially upset when they see a young man join Hare Krsna and give up--give up his career, give up going to the


Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee: This is very destructive, they say...

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee: ...that he's giving all his possessions to the Society, giving up his career or job and his plans for the future. And then

they want to stop us.

Devotee: Even in India.

Srila Prabhupada: Everywhere. Why you say, speak India or in England? The human intelligence is the same. There is no change. They have made

like this: "East," "West" and "England," and... The psychology is the   same. The ass is the same. The camel is the same. The dog is the same.

We are talking of these dogs. Do you think that in Europe the dog is different from Indian dog? (laughs) They have created another problem.

But we take: "You are all dogs. Either you be Indian or England or German, you are, after all, after dog. Your mentality is dog." They
have created that "Indian dog is better than the English dog" or "English dog is better than German." What is better? It is dog. You

are doglike and hankering after some job in America and amongst Europeans. The Indians are all doing that, the same education.

Recently for a post of five hundred men there were three lakhs of applications. This is education.  And you'll find uneducated Indian,

still he's independent. You will find in Calcutta especially we have seen. Yes. In the morning they'll purchase a bag of potato. Say, he

invests twenty rupees. Nowadays he'll sit down in a corner and maketwo rupees' profit. He invests twenty rupees, and he gets twenty-two.

He's satisfied, poor man. Then in the, say, ten to twelve he'll purchase some dal. He'll go home to home. He'll make another two

rupees' profit. In the evening he'll take some kerosene oil, and he'll sell. Evening everyone requires kerosene oil. He'll make another two

rupees. So he's illiterate. He makes six rupees' profit, five rupees' profit, and if he can, ten rupees' profit. And takes some chana

cho(?), some peanuts, sit down. In this way he's independently earning five to ten rupees.
And educated? He's just like dog--"Give me job"--and unemployed and eating at the cost of father or welfare

activities, welfare department, and moving like dog. Just see practically.
The uneducated, he's earning because he knows that "If I go with application, what education I have got? Nobody will like me."

He's hopeless in that way. "So let me try in my own way." He's earning ten rupees. And the other man, he's starving and taking help from the

government, eating at the cost of father. This is education. Otherwise he is becoming hippie. Is that education?  And in the Vedic system--education for the brahmana, how to learn to be truthful, how to control senses, how to become educated in Vedic knowledge. It is

for brahmana. Bas, education, a few men selected. Ksatriya, he has to learn how to fight: "Go. Fight. Go in the forest and kill animals and

lie, try again, learn how to kill." Education. Vaisya--"Go to the field. See how the plow is moved, how to give protection to the..."

Finish education. And sudra, he has to work under the order of the master. Master says, "Do this": he'll do it. So where is education

required, high education, university degrees? And the government is maintaining big, big building, big, big professor, and the professor

is... What is that? You told me? Gargamuni was telling.

Devotee: Oh. All debauches.

Srila Prabhupada: All debauch. Because they're getting fat salary. What they'll do? They do not know how to use it. Wine, woman, restaurant,
dance--finish. So we have got very pessimistic view of this modern world. You may like or not. Simply spoiling time. Srama eva hi

kevalam. Simply work without any profit of the human form of life. And nobody is interested to correct the procedure.  If we try to correct

them, they will accuse us that "These people are brainwashed. They deviating these young men from the general procedure of human

civilization." Hm? What is this? Illicit sex stopped? Then where is life? This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have

sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce--no

protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away.  And old age--there is no family, no son.

Ninety-nine percent the woman class live like that. How hopelessly the old ladies are sitting down--only one cat, one dog, one television.

The old men also like that, hopelessness. Or drinking or seeing the television. And a dog friend. Is that life? And we want to correct


Devotee: They are so... They have no brain to even understand this. You cannot talk to them.

Srila Prabhupada: No, no, we have to do. Otherwise there is no meaning of preacher. Most thankless task. We want to save them, and they accuse

us. My Guru Maharaja used to give that example: A boy is flying kite, and he's going like this. He's just come on the edge of the roof. He

is going to fall down. And somebody says, "Hey! What are you doing this for?" (shouts:) "Why you are checking me? Oh, my kite is gone,

gone. I have gone back." This is going on. If you want to save them, they will accuse you that "My kite-flying is disturbed. Don't do

this." "And why you are. Why...? You'll fall down." "Never mind. That is my business. Why you are checking me?" This example was given by my

Guru Maharaja. You want to save him. Who is a gentleman who will not save him? He is falling down next moment. That is natural. But he is

angry. "Why you have checked my kite-flying?" So it is a different type of civilization, a different style of life. If you want to introduce they will accuse you, so many, like madmen. And still we have to do. That is preaching. You cannot expect very smooth life in preaching.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, you've given the example of feeding a pill

to a horse.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Chant Hare Krsna Mantra, the bona fide and authorized process for this age, to free oneself from all this madness and take as many sincere souls along with you as you can.
Hari Bol
your humble servant
Damaghosa das

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