Ramananda Raya’s conversation with Lord Caitanya

TLC 32                        Conclusion

 Lord Caitanya next asked Ramananda Raya, “What is the most valuable

thing in the world?”

 Ramananda Raya replied that he who has love for

Radha-Krsna possesses the most valuable jewel and the greatest riches.

One who is addicted to material sense gratification or material wealth

is not really considered to be wealthy. When one comes to the

spiritual platform of Krsna consciousness, he can understand that

there are no riches more valuable than love of Radha-Krsna. It is

recorded in Srimad-Bhagavatam that Maharaja Dhruva sought out the

Supreme Lord because he wanted to get some land, but when he finally

saw Krsna, he said, “I am so pleased, I don’t want anything.” In

Bhagavad-gita it is also stated that if one takes shelter of the

Supreme Personality of Godhead or is elevated to the supreme state of

love of Godhead, he has nothing more to aspire to. Although such

devotees can attain whatever they desire from the Lord, they do not

ask anything from Him.

 

When Lord Caitanya asked Ramananda Raya what is considered to be

the most painful existence,

 Ramananda Raya replied that separation

from a pure devotee constitutes the most painful existence. In other

words, when there is no devotee of the Lord present, there is great

suffering in society, and association with other people becomes

painful. In ▼Srimad-Bhagavatam (3.30.7) it is stated that if one who

is bereft of the association of a pure devotee tries to become happy

through society, friendship and love devoid of Krsna consciousness, he

is to be considered in the most distressed condition. In the Fifth

Canto of Brhad-bhagavatamrta (5.44) it is stated that the association

of a pure devotee is more desirable than life itself and that in

separation from him one cannot even pass a second happily.

 

Lord Caitanya then asked Ramananda Raya, “Out of many so-called

liberated souls, who is actually liberated?”

 

Ramananda replied that he who is actually completely saturated with the devotional love for Radha and Krsna is to be considered to be the best of all liberated

persons. It is stated in ▼Srimad-Bhagavatam (6.14.4) that a devotee of

Narayana is so rare that one can only find him out of millions and

millions of people.

 

   “And out of all songs, what song do you think is the best of all?”

Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked.

And Ramananda replied that any song which

describes the pastimes of Radha and Krsna is the best song. In

conditional life, the soul is captivated by sex. All fictions–dramas

and novels–and material songs describe love between men and women.

Since people are so attracted to this kind of literature, Krsna

appeared in this material world and displayed His transcendental

loving affairs with the gopis. There is an immense literature dealing

with the transactions between the gopis and Krsna, and anyone who

takes shelter of this literature or of the stories about Radha and

Krsna can enjoy actual happiness. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.33.36) it

is said that the Lord displayed His pastimes in Vrndavana in order to

reveal His actual life. Any intelligent person who tries to understand

the pastimes of Radha and Krsna is most fortunate. The songs that tell

of those pastimes are the greatest songs in the world.

 

   Lord Caitanya then inquired: “What is the most profitable thing in

the world, the essence of all auspicious events?”

Ramananda Raya replied that there is nothing as profitable as the association of pure

devotees.

 

   “And what do you recommend a person to think of?” Lord Caitanya

asked.

Ramananda replied that one should always think of the pastimes

of Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness. Krsna has multiple activities,

and they are described in many Vedic scriptures. One should always

think of those pastimes; that is the best meditation and the highest

ecstasy. In ▼Srimad-Bhagavatam (2.2.36) Sukadeva Gosvami confirms that

one should always think of the Supreme Personality of Godhead–not

only think of Him, but one should also hear and chant His name, fame

and glories.

 

 “And what is the best type of meditation?” Lord Caitanya inquired.

 

“He who always meditates on the lotus feet of Radha and Krsna is

the best meditator,” Ramananda Raya answered. This is also confirmed

in ▼Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.2.14): “It is the Supreme Personality of

Godhead alone who is the master of all devotees, whose name one should

always chant and who should always be meditated upon and worshiped

regularly.”

 

   “Where should a person live, giving up all other pleasures?” Lord

Caitanya next inquired.

Ramananda replied that one should give up all

other pleasures and should live in Vrndavana where Lord Krsna had so

many pastimes. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.47.61) Uddhava says that it is

best to live in Vrndavana even if one has to live as a plant or

creeper. It was in Vrndavana that the Supreme Lord lived and it was

there that the gopis worshiped the Supreme Lord, the ultimate goal of

all Vedic knowledge.

 

“And what is the best subject to hear of?” Caitanya Mahaprabhu next

asked.

  “The pastimes of Radha and Krsna,” Ramananda replied. Actually when

the pastimes of Radha and Krsna are heard from the right source, one

at once attains liberation. Unfortunately it sometimes happens that

people do not hear of these pastimes from a person who is a realized

soul. Thus people are sometimes misguided. It is stated in

Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.33.40) that one who hears of the pastimes of

Krsna with the gopis will attain the highest platform of devotional

service and will be freed from the material lust which overwhelms

everyone’s heart in the material world. In other words, by hearing the

pastimes of Radha and Krsna, one can get rid of all material lust. If

one does not become freed from material lust in this way, then he

should not indulge in hearing of the pastimes of Radha and Krsna.

Unless one hears from the right source, he will misinterpret the

pastimes of Radha and Krsna, considering them to be ordinary affairs

between a man and woman. In this way one may be misguided.

 

   “And who is the most worshipable Deity?” Caitanya Mahaprabhu next

inquired.

Ramananda Raya immediately replied that the transcendental

couple, Sri Radha and Krsna, is the ultimate object of worship. There

are many worshipable objects–the impersonalists worship the

brahmajyoti, for instance–but by worshiping objects other than Radha

and Krsna, one becomes bereft of life’s symptoms and becomes just like

a tree or other nonmoving entity. Those who worship the so-called void

also attain such results. Those who are after material enjoyment

(bhukti) worship the demigods and achieve their planets and thus enjoy

material happiness.

 

Lord Caitanya next inquired about those who are

after material happiness and liberation from material bondage. “Where

do they ultimately go?” He asked.

 

Ramananda Raya replied that ultimately some turn into trees and others attain the heavenly planets where they enjoy material happiness.

 

Ramananda Raya went on to say that those who have no taste for

Krsna consciousness or spiritual life are just like crows who take

pleasure in eating the bitter nimba fruit. It is the poetic cuckoo

that eats the seeds of the mango. The unfortunate transcendentalists

simply speculate on dry philosophy, whereas the transcendentalists who

are in love with Radha and Krsna enjoy fruit just like the cuckoo.

Thus those who are devotees of Radha and Krsna are most fortunate. The

bitter nimba fruit is not at all eatable; it is simply full of dry

speculation and is only fit for crowlike philosophers. Mango seeds,

however, are very relishable, and those in the devotional service of

Radha and Krsna enjoy them.

 

   Thus Ramananda Raya and Caitanya Mahaprabhu talked for the entire

night. Sometimes they danced, sometimes sang and sometimes cried.

After passing the night in this way, at dawn Ramananda Raya returned

to his place. The next evening he returned to see Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

After discussing Krsna for some time, Ramananda Raya fell at the feet

of the Lord and said, “My dear Lord, You are so kind to me that You

have told me about the science of Krsna and Radharani and Their loving

affairs, the affairs of the rasa dance and Their pastimes. I never

thought that I should be able to speak on this subject matter. You

have taught me as You formerly taught the Vedas to Brahma.”

 

   Being very satisfied, Lord Caitanya smiled and showed Ramananda His

real form as the combination of Sri Radha and Krsna. Thus Lord

Caitanya was Sri Krsna Himself with the external features of Srimati

Radharani. His transcendental ability to become two and then to become

one again was revealed to Ramananda Raya. Those who are fortunate

enough to understand Lord Caitanya as well as the Vrndavana pastimes

of Radha and Krsna can be able, by the mercy of Sri Rupa Gosvami, to

know about the real identity of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Upon seeing this unique feature of Lord Caitanya, Ramananda Raya

fainted and fell on the floor. Lord Caitanya then touched him, and he

came to his senses. Ramananda Raya was then surprised to see Lord

Caitanya again in His mendicant dress. Lord Caitanya embraced and

pacified him and informed him that he was the only one to have seen

this form. “Because you have understood the purpose of My incarnation,

you are privileged to have seen this particular feature of My

personality,” the Lord said. “My dear Ramananda, I am not a different

person with a fair complexion known as Gaurapurusa. I am the selfsame

Krsna the son of Maharaja Nanda, and due to contact with the body of

Srimati Radharani I have now assumed this form. Srimati Radharani does

not touch anyone but Krsna; therefore She has influenced Me with Her

complexion, mind and words. In this way I am just trying to understand

the transcendental flavor of Her relationship with Krsna.”

 

The fact is that both Krsna and Lord Caitanya are the original

Personality of Godhead. No one should try to eliminate Lord Caitanya

from Sri Krsna. In His form of Sri Krsna, He is the supreme enjoyer,

and in His form of Lord Caitanya, He is the supreme enjoyed. No one

can be more superexcellently attractive than Sri Krsna, and but for

Sri Krsna, no one can enjoy the supreme form of devotion, Srimati

Radharani. But for Sri Krsna, all Visnu forms are lacking this

ability. This is explained in the description of Govinda in

Caitanya-caritamrta. There it is said that Srimati Radharani is the

only personality who can infuse Sri Krsna with transcendental

pleasure. Thus Srimati Radharani is the chief damsel of Vraja in love

with Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna.

 

You can understand this yourself and keep it to yourself. From

a materialistic point of view, a devotee becomes mad in his ecstasy of

love for Krsna. Both you and I are just like madmen. So please don’t

disclose these facts to ordinary men. If you do, they will surely

laugh at Me.”

 

Lord Caitanya then passed ten nights with Ramananda Raya, enjoyed

his company and discussed the pastimes of Krsna and Radha. The

discussions between them were on the highest level of love for Krsna.

Some of these talks are described, but most of them could not be

described.

In Caitanya-caritamrta this has been compared to

metallurgic examination. The metals compared are discussed in the

following sequence: first copper, then bronze, then silver, gold and

at last touchstone. The preliminary discussions between Lord Caitanya

and Ramananda Raya are considered to be like copper, and the higher

discussions are considered to be like gold. The fifth dimension of

their discussions, however, is considered to be like touchstone. If

one is eager to attain the highest understanding, he must begin with

an inquiry into the differences between copper and bronze, then silver

and gold and so on.

 

footnote–these last statements comparing different metals to sucessively higher understandings

refer to an earlier discussion between Ramananda Raya and Lord Caitanya where

5 basic ideas for Dharma were presented by Ramananda Raya beginning with- how one should

just perform his occupational duty;;next was give up all results to Krsna, then renunciation

without fruitive result; then brahman realization without fruitive work or mental speculation until finally he came to hearing from the lips of a pure devotee-which Lord Caitanya accepted as the 

correct process for this age of Kali, since none of the previous methods are feasible due the implications and impurity of the age and its inhabitants..

 

Hare Krsna

Damaghosa das