What is real and what is bogus initiation​?

December 31, 2012 in Articles, Damaghosa Dasa by Nityananda Rama dasa




Hare Krsna to  all


Glories to Srila  Prabhupada


Below we have here  more valuable information which confirms the principles of bona fide initiation  vs. non bonafide and the symptoms by which one can judge for  himself.


Srila Bhaktisiddhanta  Maharj writes in the book Brahmana and Vaisnava….


…”If an initiated  person has not undergone the sacred thread ceremony, then according  to the  statement of Brhaspati, a compiler of Dharma sastra, he has simply transgressed  religious principles. The scriptures state that after receiving initiation  one becomes twice born. If this was not so, then it is to be concluded that he  has certainly not been properly initiated. If one is properly  initiated then the results must come. A cause is known by its  effects. If one claims to be a Vaisnava guru while  neglecting the tat tenaiva vinirdiset verse, (“he should be accepted according  to those symptoms of classification” statement of Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.35),   then he should be rejected. This is the purport of the  scriptures.

One who assumes the  dress and position of  an acarya, who speaks against conclusions of Srimad  Bhagavatam and other scriptures or who performs kirtan opposed to the proper  glorification of Sri Krsna, certainly goes to hell for countless  lifetimes along with his disciples and whoever else  hears such non devotional talks and  kirtans….”


The above reference to  SB is here—SB 7.11.35–  If one shows the symptoms of being  a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya or sudra, as described above, even if he has  appeared in a different class, he should be accepted  according to those symptoms  of classification.


And in Srila  Prabhupadas purport to SB……


SB 8.20.1  Purport          Anyone who is  supposed to be a guru but who goes against the principle of visnu-bhakti  cannot be accepted as guru. If one has falsely accepted such a guru, one  should reject him. Such a guru is described as follows (Mahabharata,  Udyoga 179.25):


guror apy  avaliptasya                           karyakaryam  ajanatah                          utpatha-pratipannasya                           parityago vidhiyate


Srila  Jiva Gosvami has advised that such a useless guru, a family priest acting as  guru, should be given up, and that the proper, bona-fide guru should be  accepted.

Isopanisad  12                                                   The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from  material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of  material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as  religious principles. By a false display of  religious sentiments, they present a show of  devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral  activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and  devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have  no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers  in the strict disciplic succession. They ignore the Vedic  injunction acaryopasana–“One must worship the acarya”–and Krsna’s statement  in the ▼Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, “This supreme science of  God is received through the disciplic succession.” Instead, to mislead the  people in general they themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not  even follow the principles of the acaryas.    These rogues  are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no  religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state.  They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared  in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious  propagandists shall be thrown into the

darkest regions of  hell (Bg. 16.19-20). Sri Isopanisad confirms  that these pseudo religionists are heading toward  the most obnoxious place in the universe after the  completion of their spiritual master business, which they  conduct simply for sense gratification.



SB 1.19.37  P      The Appearance of Sukadeva  Gosvami        Unless one is perfectly  anxious to inquire about the way of perfection, there is no necessity of  approaching a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not a kind of  decoration for a householder. Generally a fashionable materialist  engages a so-called spiritual master without any  profit. The pseudo spiritual master flatters  the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and  his ward go to hell without a doubt.  Maharaja Pariksit is the right type of disciple because he puts forward  questions vital to the interest of all men, particularly for the dying men.  The question put forward by Maharaja Pariksit is the basic principle of the  complete thesis of Srimad-Bhagavatam.


CONCLUSIONS–So many  come in Kali yuga and claim they are Guru–but the Srimad  Bhagavatam

says one should judge  these persons by their behavior first, then such persons can be  classified as Brahmana, Ksatryia  or whatever, etc. If one sees that a  person who is claiming to be Vaisnava guru doesn’t even chant 16 rounds, the  minimum given by his own Guru, then what kind of guru is he? If this same or  similar person has also been found to be engaged in sinful acts, then how  is he Guru?

Bhaktisiddhanta  Maharaj also states that if one has been considered to be initiated by a bona  fide guru then the symptoms in the disciple should manifest, namely  brahminical behavior.  Effect should follow proper cause. Yet if we  see that so many of the new “disciples’ of this modern age, dont even chant Hare  Krsna mantra, or follow the 4 regulative principles, then this simply means that  person from whom they took “initiation” was not a bona fide guru in the  first place. I read one story of a devotee who sat in on a discussion of  some iskgurus who were saying that practically all of their disciples fall away  in 2-3 years so get as much (money) out of them as soon as you can. This is the  mentality of a family priest not a Vaisnava Acarya.


So after these two  types of cheaters come together for some guru-disciple business, then what  happens?  Sastra states that the bogus guru and the bogus disciple both go  to hell. Not a very pretty picture is it?




750520mw.mel                Conversations                Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupada, if one goes to the temple, if one attends  the temple regularly and inquires from the devotees about the devotional  principles, and because of some reason, it’s not necessarily… it’s not  convenient for him to live in the temple at that time, and he is living with  people… Prabhupada: No, no, you live  in temple or without temple, if you follow the instruction, that is  wanted. If  you live without temple and chant sixteen rounds and observe the regulative  principle, that’s all right. It doesn’t require that you should live in the  temple. And if you live in the temple and do all nonsense, then what is the  use of living in the temple? Devotee: Is it wrong to think of initiation  then? Or initiated also? (?) Prabhupada: Their “thinking” means  they are not fixed up. That very word suggest that they are not fixed up. Oh,  initiation can take place anywhere.


[In the  above convesation we see Srila Prabhupada stressing that initiation can take  place anywhere.

Many  devotees think that initiation has to take place ONLY in a temple with the fire  sacrifice, all your family members,TP, GBC sanction, etc. Yet here Srila  Prabhupada states that initiation can take place  anywhere.

Why is  that?

Because  initiation means it is an affair of the heart when the aspirant decides he or  she wants to be guided by the Param para disciplic sucession as delivered down  thru eternal time. When THAT time comes, THAT moment in time is considered  “initiation”. Then a formal initiation can take place later, even decades later  or  11 years, as was Srila Prabhupada’s personal case.]


761210DB.HYD                    Lectures                   240636/530501     So anyway, from 1922 [when he first met Bhaktisiddhanta  maharaj] to 1933 practically I was not initiated, but I got the  impression of preaching Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Maharaja. Then officially I was initiated in  1933 because in 1923 I left Calcutta. I started my business at Allahabad.  So I was always thinking of my Guru Maharaja, that “I met a very nice sadhu.” Although I was doing business I never forgot  him.


[So above  is the proof by Srila Prabhupada himself. He states that he first met Srila  Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj in 1923, at which point he considered himself  “initiated”  even though he waited until 11 years later for the formal initiation, due to  business concerns which took him out of Calcutta and away from Bhaktisiddhanta  Maharaj.]


761016iv.cha                 Conversations                 452898/530501 Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you  initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do  that? Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing  is knowledge. (break)  …knowledge. Initiation is  formality. Just like you go  to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very  important thing….  So our this movement is successful…


[In this  conversation Srila Prabhupada states that  for initiation, the first  thing is knowledge, not the bananna throw into the sacred fire. First we  have to be convinced about what we are hearing and doing, then that conviction  becomes our desire for initiation within the heart by following the  teachings laid down by the acaryas in our sampradaya.]


Hare  Krsna

Damaghosa  das


SB  10.13.54     The visnu-murtis all had  eternal, unlimited forms, full of knowledge and bliss and existing beyond the  influence of time. Their great glory was not even to be  touched by the jnanis engaged in studying the  Upanisads.




    Mere sastra jnana, or knowledge in the Vedas, does not help  anyone understand the personality of Godhead. Only one who is  favored or shown mercy by the Lord can understand  Him. This is also explained  in the Upanisads (Mundaka Upanisad 3.2.3):


                     nayam atma pravacanena  labhyo                       na medhasa na bahuna  srutena                      yam evaisa vrnute tena  labhyas                    tasyaisa atma vivrnute tanum svam


  “The Supreme Lord is not obtained by  expert explanations, by vast intelligence, or even by much hearing. He is  obtained only by one whom He Himself chooses. To such a  person, He manifests His own form.”