SP explains why 4th and 5th class men cannot understand guru tattva

April 2, 2021 in Articles by Damaghosa dasa

July 21 1975 San Francisco

Prabhupāda: Now they should come to big dictionary. This is Vedic. The Vedic truth is there, but it is not properly explained because the men were fourth-class. Now the people have become advanced. They should take to Vedic literature. Then they will understand how God created. But it was not explained because the people, they were living in the desert and shepherds and all fourth-class, fifth-class men. And now they, these first-class men, all advanced men, they are trying to adjust the tenth-class ideas, and therefore they are becoming rejecting, that “It is all useless.” Now they should come to first-class understanding in the Vedas.

Paramahaṁsa: As a matter of fact there’s a very famous quote from Christ…

Prabhupāda: I think Christ said that there are many things to be spoken but…

Paramahaṁsa: “My father’s house has many rooms, but I cannot tell you of it now.”

Prabhupāda: Because they were fourth-class, fifth-class men. They will not understand. Therefore it is taken, “dogmas.” The modern students, they are advanced in education, and these things are not explained. And besides that, their education is atheistic. Therefore they are trying to reject religion.

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say you cannot study Veda because Christ said that there is no other way than himself.

Prabhupāda: Because they are fourth-class, unless he says like that, how they will stick? They were not intelligent men. Just like Lord Buddha also said, “There is no God.” “There is no God,” but he is God himself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the followers of Lord Buddha are less intelligent than the followers of…

Prabhupāda: “Less” not. They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, “There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent.” So his idea was, “Let this rascal first of all become nonviolent. Then they will be pure, and then they will understand.”

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Nectar of Devotion you explain that there are three classes of devotees. And you say that the third-class devotee, he has belief but he cannot explain or give any support.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bahulāśva: This is like Christian…?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: They believe that there is God.

Prabhupāda: If you believe there is God, that is sufficient. That is sufficient. But now they, being advanced in education, they want to know how God is there. There is no explanation. Therefore they reject it.

Jayādvaita: They try to explain scientifically what’s in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: That science is rascaldom. So how they will be able? Because the whole thing is rascaldom, how they will explain God? Those who are actually advanced scientists, they have accepted. “There must be God,” they say.

Jayadwaita: But otherwise the rascals, they try and explain scientifically. They come to the conclusion…

[Note here JAS is giving the same bogus argument he now uses to change Prabhupadas books-”we have to change the english to keep us with present day academic standars”]

Prabhupāda: Yes, what is their science? Whole science is rascaldom. Just like they have never seen what is there in the planet, and they are concluding, “There is no life.” You see? So they are all rascals. Maybe one or two like that gentleman who says that “No, there is God. There is grace.”

Bahulāśva: So Prabhupāda, you said belief is enough?

Prabhupāda: Yes, for the noneducated rascal, belief is the… That is required, blind belief. That is good.

Bahulāśva: Blind faith.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: But to become an advanced devotee, do you have to have knowledge?

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, catur-vidhā bhajante mām…

Jayādvaita: Janāḥ sukṛtino ‘rjuna.

Prabhupāda: Sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. Jñānī… What is called?

Devotee (5): Ārto jijñāsur…

Prabhupāda: Ah. No, this first word, distress, ārtaḥ, ārtaḥ. Artaḥ, arthārthī, jñānī and jijñāsuḥ. So some innocent man, when he is distressed, he has belief in God. So he approaches God, “God, I am distressed. Kindly help me.” He is simply on faith. That is good. And jñānī means he wants to know actually what is God. Then his enquiry is advancing.

Some Conclusions-This is a very instructive conversation because Srila Prabhupada is explaining why neopyte “devotees” cannot understand higher truths. He says they are rascals, even though they have belief in God. Why rascals? Because they are 4th or 5th class men, even though so called “educated”.

So Lord Buddha’s idea was let these rascals become non violent then they will become pure by not killing animals. Similarly, let these neophytes become somewhat purified by chanting Hare Krsna Mantra, THEN, someday they will understand guru tattva, Krsna tattva etc. But for now, they equate their bogus gurus with the fully liberated soul Srila Prabhupada because they are not sincere nor serious nor have they received Krsnas mercy upon them yet. And because they are 4th and 5th class rascals, they make all sorts of deviations to the original teachings of the fully liberated soul Srila Prabhupada-even though he told us, and everyone knew it-dont change anything !!

Who else could do this but a 4th and 5th class rascal?? And for some devotees it takes 20-30 years and multiple switches of fallen gurus before they can understand they took initiation from a bogus rascal !! Better late than never…..

Hare Krsna

damaghosa das

The real master commands, “You must do this, ” and the real servant immediately obeys the order.

SB 7.10.6

Here below is one letter exchange I had with this 4th class rascal Gaura keshava who took it upon himself to change the entire system of deity worship that his own guru-Srila Prabhuapda had set up. Srila Prabhupada calls these people-demons and rascals. !!

In a message dated 3/29/2009 2:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jay.greg@gmail.com writes: (Gaura Keshava das)

In ISKCON Srila Prabhupada instituted another order offering the items to the guru first. In this case the item cannot technically be offered afterwards to the Lord having first been enjoyed by the guru. This is technically not correct. Therefore we must in this case follow sastra and adapt our worship method to the one followed by all Vaisnava sampradayas. The doctrine or principle of worshiping the guru first is correct but the technicality of HOW that is to be done is incorrect..….By the way this system is followed in most temples in Europe where I standardized the deity worship in the 1980’sIt is not followed in some temples like LA because some Prabhupada disciples find it difficult to accept and they have no experience of the correct technical details as practiced in India


So in this letter above to some of us, Gaura Keshava explains why he and others took it upon themselves to change the order of making offerings he admits that Srila Prabhupada himself instituted in his organization. Below is the actual proof of how to make offerings by the organizations actual Acarya himself, Srila Prabhupada !

Letter to Himavati, Los Angeles, 1 April 1970-Yes, it is nice that you are worshiping Lord Caitanya along with Radha Krsna. That is alright. Lord Caitanya should be placed to the right side of Krsna. There is nothing special for His worship, but you may continue as you are doing now. The order of worshiping is first Spiritual Master, and then Lord Caitanya, then Radha Krsna (as in the mantras or Bunde aham prayer)…Your confidence to do whatever you are instructed by the Spiritual Master is very encouraging. Yes, this is the method of the Vedic injunction, staunch faith in Spiritual Master and Krsna makes one perfect in spiritual understanding.

Letters : Vrindaban 12 February, 1974 

I am very glad to hear you are following my instructions by chanting 16 rounds daily. In order to chant offenselessly, so that the chanting will have the greatest effect, one must avoid the four sinful activities. You have asked “How serious would it be for me if I should miss the golden opportunity to become your initiated disciple?” You should know that the value of accepting a bona fide spiritual master is more than we can calculate. It is not a mere formality. Of course everyone is encouraged to chant Hare Krishna, but until one gives up sinful activities and becomes determined to serve Krishna through His representative then the firm fixing up of devotional service will not take hold, and there is every chance that one will fall prey to all sorts of material desires and have to come back again in the next lifeand one cannot guarantee that he will be born in the form of life he may desire. 

Conversations :  720911rc.arl :

Prabhupāda: Dhruva Mahārāja. He was advised by his mother that “If you go to the forest you can see God.” So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious