Vedic Tradition-Srila Prabhupada started his own and this is bona fide
March 27, 2019 in Articles by Damaghosa dasa
Lord Krsna’s bona fide representative the Acarya, can establish his own Tradition He is not held to Vedic so called –Tradition
( See quotes below.)
Those who have any regard for me should give this respect and position to Govinda Maharaj as my successor. As much as you have faith in my sincerity, then with all sincerity I believe that he has got the capacity of rendering service in this way. With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as Rtvik. The Rtvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The Rtvik is the representative.So if you want to take from me, and you take by his hands,then it will be as well and as good as taking from me.
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May 13 1973 conversations
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you are not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions, for example, on questions that may arise?
Prabhupāda: Well, the questions… Answers are there in my books.
Paramahaṁsa: Other than that, for example, that we would ask you in…
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Do you direct us also through the heart? Besides the Paramātmā?
Prabhupāda: If your heart is pure. Everything depends on purity.
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*There is a nice story in the Caitanya Bhagavat where Srivas Thakur tried to sneak in a pure brahmana friend of his to the nocturnal kirtans of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. When found out, he was severely chastised by Mahaprabhu for letting in a non associate of His pure devotee entourage. Long story short, Srivas tried to persuade Mahaprabhu to let his friend stay by arguing that this pure brahmana never broke the regulative principles, was celibate from birth, and subsisted daily by drinking only milk. Sri Caitanya was furious saying-do you think I can be purchased by someone who only drinks milk and is very austere? I can only be purchased by pure devotional service, and nothing else.
So this story should show us along with the above quote that access to the Lord depends not only on purity of self, but also on pure bhakti, which comes from developing pure sambhandha jnana.. Even if someone has followed all the rules of religion his whole life, but is not a pure bhakta, and is ignorant of various things,, he cant directly approach the Lord. Seeing Krsna personally or giving Krsna to others thru diksa, is not a cheap affair. One must be completely pure and authorized..
Iskcon Argument -they say by following the ritvik system, one would be violating the Vedic system of tradition.
(SB 4.8.54)Translation- Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. This is the twelve-syllable mantra for worshipping Lord Krsna. One should install the physical forms of the Lord, and with the chanting of the mantra one should offer flowers and fruits and other varieties of foodstuffs exactly according to the rules and regulations prescribed by authorities. But this should be done in consideration of place, time, and attendant conveniences and inconveniences.
Purport-The prescribed rules, as stated here by Narada Muni, are that one should accept the mantra through a bona fide spiritual master and hear the mantra in the right ear. Not only should one chant or murmur the mantra, but in front of him he must have the Deity, or physical form of the Lord. Of course, when the Lord appears it is no longer a physical form…..The method of worship–chanting the mantra and preparing the forms of the Lord–is not stereotyped, nor is it exactly the same everywhere. lt. is specifically mentioned in this verse that one should take consideration of the time, place and available conveniences. Our Krsna consciousness movement is going on throughout the entire world, and we also install Deities in different centers. Sometimes our Indian friends, puffed up with concocted notions, criticise, “This has not been done. That has not been done.” But they forget this instruction of Narada Muni to one of the greatest Vaisnavas, Dhruva Maharaja. One has to consider the particular time, country and conveniences. What is convenient in India may not be convenient in the Western countries. Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, necessarily criticise the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India. The fact is that such critics cannot do anything personally to spread Krsna consciousness. If someone does go and preach, taking all risks and allowing all considerations for time and place, it might be that there are changes in the manner of worship, but that is not at all faulty according to sastra. Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas. (S.B. 4.8.54.)
Purport-The prescribed rules, as stated here by Narada Muni, are that one should accept the mantra through a bona fide spiritual master and hear the mantra in the right ear. Not only should one chant or murmur the mantra, but in front of him he must have the Deity, or physical form of the Lord. Of course, when the Lord appears it is no longer a physical form…..The method of worship–chanting the mantra and preparing the forms of the Lord–is not stereotyped, nor is it exactly the same everywhere. lt. is specifically mentioned in this verse that one should take consideration of the time, place and available conveniences. Our Krsna consciousness movement is going on throughout the entire world, and we also install Deities in different centers. Sometimes our Indian friends, puffed up with concocted notions, criticise, “This has not been done. That has not been done.” But they forget this instruction of Narada Muni to one of the greatest Vaisnavas, Dhruva Maharaja. One has to consider the particular time, country and conveniences. What is convenient in India may not be convenient in the Western countries. Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, necessarily criticise the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India. The fact is that such critics cannot do anything personally to spread Krsna consciousness. If someone does go and preach, taking all risks and allowing all considerations for time and place, it might be that there are changes in the manner of worship, but that is not at all faulty according to sastra. Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas. (S.B. 4.8.54.)
What changes to” Tradition” did Srila Prabhupada make?? He allowed both men and women to live in the same temple building. He initiated thousands thru only letters and gave brahmana initiation to both men and women thru a tape recording. He married devotees, something sannyasis are not allowed to do. He also used machines abundantly in preaching work. He allowed ritviks to chant on new initiates beads, etc etc So to say an Acarya cannot make changes to tradition is simply incorrect. None of these things were ever done by any Acarya before,nor mentioned in the Vedas, yet Srila Prabhupada did it and was very successful at it. And the authorization for such activities is given above.
The iskcon argument-Nobody has ever done this so called “ritvik initiations business before. Here are some examples of those doing it now and those doing it in the past.
Declaration of the Spiritual Succession of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math
byHis Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaj Founder-Acarya of the Sri Caitanya Sarasvat Math
(Gaura-purnima, 26th March, 1986)
According to the desire of my Divine Master, I have been maintaining this disciplic succession but it is no longer possible for me, as I am now too old and invalid. You all know that from long ago I have chosen Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaja and I have given him sannyasa. All my Vaisnava Godbrothers are very affectionate towards him and it is also their desire to give him this position. I have previously given to him the charge of the Math and now I am giving him the full responsibility of giving Harinama, diksa, sannyasa, etc. as an Acarya of this Math on behalf of myself.
Those who have any regard for me should give this respect and position to Govinda Maharaj as my successor. As much as you have faith in my sincerity, then with all sincerity I believe that he has got the capacity of rendering service in this way. With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as Rtvik. The Rtvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The Rtvik is the representative.So if you want to take from me, and you take by his hands,then it will be as well and as good as taking from me.
Note-It is very interesting that Sridhar Maharaj utilized the ritvik system for his matha’s succession (before he died) which already was begun by our Srila Prabhupada in iskcon, yet for many of his earlier years, he (Sridhar) assumed the post of acarya of his matha in Navadvipa. And this was against the order of his guru maharaja Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja who wanted all his disciples to work together and a real acarya would emerge by his preaching from amongst them all.. So this is only one example.
Another example is this….
Interview With Sri Bannanje Govindacharya
It may be recalled that HG Vidvan Gauranga Dasa posted a report of his meeting two eminent vaishnavas in Bangalore, namely Vidyavacaspati Sri Bannaje Govindacharya (a grhasta madhva scholar). When devotees of ISKCON Bangalore showed the report to Sri Bananje Govindacharya, he said that the reporting was partial and did not completely represent his views. The devotees continued their discussion with him and it was recorded. Later the interview was transcribed, taken back to him for review so that he is satisfied that we represent his views properly this time. We provide the same here:
Below is an interview with Sri Bannanje Govindacarya, original tape available:
Sri Bannanje Govindacarya: Meaning of diksha is to give adhikara in a mantra or any system or in a faith. Who can give initiation? In fact if I want to initiate somebody into gayatri, I must be a realised person. Gayatri sakshatkara is the first requirement for a diksha guru. Siddhi or perfection. Mantra siddhi. Otherwise one cannot give mantra diksha to others, according to shastra. So simply giving Diksha and canceling and taking again another diksha – that is all ashastric, not according to shastra… So this is the problem when we institutionalize a faith. We have to face all these problems, because when you institutionalize faith then all the institutional and organizational problems enter and all the organizational problems will come. Actually according to shastra, none of these swamis can initiate… No swami unless he has attained sakshatkar or mantra siddhi he cannot initiate. That is what….told was correct. Unless he has that power to take the sishya into that height, that elevation, initiation becomes a mere mechanical procedure. It has no meaning. If I want to initiate you I must be able to bring you to that plane and you must be able to meditate upon that mantra and that power should be given. Initiation is not mere mechanical procedure. That is a transformation of a power, mantric and spiritual power and a person who has actually no spiritual power how can he give spiritual power to a sisya. It cannot be claimed by a mere post or institutional powers. Initiation is totally different.
ISKCON devotee: The point is the 11 ritviks, only on the assumption that Prabhupada is not on the planet they stopped continuing to be ritviks. Is that correct or wrong? We are saying, ” you don’t have an explicit order. A clear order of the acharya is needed to become a diksha guru. Srila Prabhupada made a system-you stopped the acharya’s order!” We are questioning. They are not able to justify that. So are they correct in their justification or wrong?
Sri Bannanje Govindacarya: No…do they claim that they are no more ritviks?
ISKCON devotee: They say that they are no more ritviks. They are regular gurus. Regular gurus means, as I told you the definition, according to Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, it is very serious thing. It is a very big thing.
Sri Bannanje Govindacarya: Yes. See that is why I have told this is clash between the organization and the spiritual practice. When the spiritual practices become institutionalized, then the institution has certain… it is totally left to the …you are correct. There is no letter or there is no resolution, any orders. In an institution anything can be changed. The governing body is there and by majority they can vote and they can have a resolution. They can change anything. According to rules and regulations. But that is left to the organizational rules and regulations.
That is what I have told, according to shastra, the religious or spiritual part of diksha – giving diksha, a person who has siddhi – siddhapurusa can give diksha to others. Otherwise it has no meaning at all. It is not a mechanical thing.
(See link for full interview…http://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com/?p=22308)
More quotes on how the bona fide spiritual master is above “traditon”-just like Krsna is not bound by any tradition-both God and Bonafide Guru are above mundane rules and regulations and are not forced to act like all others.
“…But in devotion, there is no karma-bandha.As Kṛṣṇa is free from all reaction, similarly Kṛṣṇa’s devotee who wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only, he is also free from all reaction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāva-manyeta karhicit [SB 11.17.27]. “The ācārya is as good as I am,” Kṛṣṇa says. Nāva-manyeta karhicit, “Never neglect him.” Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, “Never be envious of the ācārya, thinking him as anything of this material world.” Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān [SB 11.17.27]. Therefore, ācārya’s position is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **.Ācārya is always cautious that he may not be subject to criticism. But who criticizes ācārya, he becomes immediately offender. Because he is playing the part of ācārya, he plays as far as possible. But sometimes for preaching work, he might have to do something which is not consistent. But if he is criticized, then that man who criticizes, he becomes... Of course, he must beācārya, not a bogus. Ordinary man cannot transgress the laws, but Kṛṣṇa and His representative,ācārya, might be sometimes seen that he has transgressed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁvijānīyān [SB 11.17.27].Vaiṣṇavera kriyā, mudrā vijñeha nā bujhaya. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta,Vaiṣṇava ācārya, his activities is not understood even by the wisest man. Vaiṣṇavera kriyā, mudrā vijñeha nā bujhaya. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam.Ācārya, guru, he is completely surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He has taken the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, being completely freed from all material affection.Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Everything… Everyone has got some material desire to fulfill, but a guru or ācārya has no such business. That is the symptom of ācārya. He has no more any material business. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has finished all business of material satisfaction. That is the symptom of ācārya. And śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. And he has taken full bath in the ocean of transcendental (indistinct). Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Tasmād guruṁprapadyeta [SB 11.3.21], one should surrender to such spiritual master. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam,when he is actually serious about inquiring the transcendental subject matter. Otherwise there is no need of accepting guru or ācārya. He has no business. If one is not interested in the transcendental subject matter …” Conversations : 1972 Conversations : March, 1972 : Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) — March 10, 1972, Vrndavana
Param Para Doesnt stop for big gaps in time
68-04-12
My Dear Dayananda,
Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system—namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to
Narotamma Das Thakur accepted Visvanatha as disciple- over a hundred years separated the two of them
April 17 1976 lecture
You know everything of devotional service, but you should not be callous. You know something of everything. That is called dakṣa. Dakṣa śraddadhānaḥ: faithful. Faithful to whom? To the spiritual master. Whatever he says, the brahmacārī should take it: “Yes, it is my life and soul.” That is the explanation given by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He is explaining with reference to the verse vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana [Bg. 2.41]. He very nicely explains. You have perhaps read it, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura’s… Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has taught very, very nicely about guru. Therefore he has written in Gurvaṣṭaka, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. He is example, practical example of guru-bhakti, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He accepted his guru, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura.
Some Conclusions-So we can see from all the above that this iskcon argument about violating so called Tradition is wrong and certainly does not apply to the Bonafide Acarya Shaktyavesha avatar Srila Prabhupada, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhus Senapati Bhakta. Nor does the param para stop once such a personality leaves the physical plane since his mercy, blessings and instructions are always available. And those instructions are the real association of a Maha Bhagavat.
So how could Visvanatha take Narottama das as his guru if there were a 100 years of time separating them? This is the big question the iskcon pandits cannot answer yet. They think you need a so called “living guru”, otherwise initiation cannot take place. This understanding it totally the opposite of what Srila Prabhuapada teaches us in the above quotes.
Now, a normal devotee will accept verbatim the words of Srila Prabhupada, but one who has been contaminated by mis information year after year finds out that finding the real truth can be very difficult to accept and understand..
Hare Krsna
damaghosa das
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“Unless one is under the shelter of a realized spiritual master, his understanding of the Supreme is simply foolishness” quote from TLC
LA July 13 1971—Prabhupāda:Unless one is prepared that “I am accepting somebody as my spiritual master. I must accept whatever he says,” if there is any doubt, that “I cannot accept his words verbatim,” then one should not accept him as spiritual master. That is hypocrisy
Antya 7.134-TRANSLATION-“Whatever you might write due to false pride, trying to surpass Śrīdhara Svāmī, would carry a contrary purport. Therefore no one would pay attention to it.
PURPORT-Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam has many ṭīkās, or commentaries, following the paramparā system, but Śrīdhara Svāmī’s is first. The commentaries of all the other ācāryas follow his. The paramparā system does not allow one to deviate from the commentaries of the previous ācāryas. By depending upon the previous ācāryas, one can write beautiful commentaries. However, one cannot defy the previous ācāryas. The false pride that makes one think that he can write better than the previous ācāryas will make one’s comments faulty.At the present moment it has become fashionable for everyone to write in his own way, but such writing is never accepted by serious devotees. Because of false pride, every scholar and philosopher wants to exhibit his learning by interpreting the śāstras, especially Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in his own way. This system of commenting in one’s own way is fully condemned by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore He says, ‘artha-vyasta’ likhana sei. Commentaries written according to one’s own philosophical way are never accepted; no one will appreciate such commentaries on the revealed scriptures.
